00:00
Sarah Stone
Hello and welcome to let's Talk Social Value, the podcast where we get to pick the brains of amazing experts and professionals working in the field of social value. I'm Sarah Stone, your host and I'm very excited today. I'm here with Holly Onsenk from the Young Professionals in Social Value Network. So, tell me a bit about the network, what is it?

00:31
Holly Onsenk
So YPSV is a free network for young professionals, so anyone working or interested in social value can be part of the network. It kind of started off, I know it's demeaning it a little bit, but it started off as a LinkedIn page really. So that's all it was. It was a free resource for anyone to get in touch and now we've got, I think it's almost 500 signed up members because we've got to sit behind it. Yeah, I think it's over A thousand on LinkedIn that follow it. So, like I said, it grew arms and legs. But it's this LinkedIn page which is a network. But from that we've now created regional leads, so people that hold in person networking events.

01:07
Holly Onsenk
We have buddy systems, so we pair people in the industry so they can chat to each other because we know it can be quite a lonely industry for a lot of people. We also have the first cross sector collaboration mentoring scheme, so we have more senior professionals in Social Value helping to mentor young professionals as well. And then we also kind of have our thought leadership groups as well that lead on a lot. So, it's really good.

01:30
Sarah Stone
It must take up loads of time.

01:32
Holly Onsenk
It does. I'm really lucky. So obviously we have Olivia Sutcliffe, so she's chair, she does a lot of it, I'm vice chair. But then we also have a really great steering group. So, we have Tara who does like all the communications and things, and then we also have Chloe, who's secretary and lots of people doing stuff all around it. So it does take time. I'm really lucky that my company I work for support me have time.

01:55
Sarah Stone
So everyone's a volunteer that's running it.

01:57
Holly Onsenk
Everyone's a volunteer, yeah. Everyone gives up their own time to do it.

02:00
Sarah Stone
It's amazing. So, it started as a LinkedIn, what you and Olivia and a few others were just saying, let's just put something out on LinkedIn and see if anyone's around.

02:08
Holly Onsenk
Yeah. It started with Olivia doing it because she was a SVP at the time. So Social Value Portal. And then I saw it was on there and I was like, let me help. What can I do. And it kind of went from there.

02:17
Sarah Stone
Amazing. So, it's for young professionals. Is there an age limit to join it?

02:22
Holly Onsenk
Yeah. So, we have kept it at 35, just because that's what we saw a lot of other groups doing at the moment. Whether that changed in the future, because we realize there are a lot of people that are maybe not young in the terms of age, but they're young to the industry as well and social value.

02:37
Sarah Stone
So I think lots of people come across from different sectors.

02:41
Holly Onsenk
Yeah. And I think that's what we need to take moving forward. But actually, what I'm sickly and I know Liv is too really protective of is the ethos of YPSV and that anyone can ask any question, no question is stupid. But all that to learn from each other and kind of bounce ideas off. So that's what we really want to keep what we like about it, really.

03:00
Sarah Stone
Yeah. And it's just something about the young bit as well, because that's what I liked about it when I first heard about it, is. Yeah. Unfortunately, I'm too old. Only a tiny bit too old.

03:10
Holly Onsenk
Yep. Yeah, yeah.

03:12
Sarah Stone
And I'm nfi. But I actually think, like, when you're starting out in your career, you do need a network work, don't you? Of people who are at the same stage as you or just a little bit ahead of you, but who still remember what it's like to be you. I mean, is that a big part of the ethos?

03:26
Holly Onsenk
Yeah, I think so. I think there's probably different pillars to it. So there's being a young professional in terms of age. So actually, how do I advocate for myself in my job? What is my job? Where do the lines end? What the boundaries? What should I be doing? What should I be advocating for myself more as a young professional? But then also, it's the industry so difficult, I think, to enter in any way. So young professional in the industry, Young professional in terms of age, I guess as well.

03:51
Sarah Stone
That's a really. Yeah, I hadn't even thought about that. What do you think it is that makes the industry difficult to enter?

03:57
Holly Onsenk
There's nothing out there that's impartial, in my opinion. That just tells you this is what social value is. And I don't think, personally, I don't think we need a term for it. I don't think everyone has to agree one thing. But actually we're just trying to have better outcomes for communities and people. We're trying to make people happier. How you do that may be different in different sectors. I think there's nothing out there to tell you where to go or job roles. There's no job roles. So actually, as a young professional and you're not established anyway, or can advocate for yourself in any way, what should you or shouldn't you be doing? What skills do you need to have?

04:29
Sarah Stone
What training should you get? Loads of people asking, I suppose it's a totally new industry, isn't it, that's being built and that's why there's some of these gaps.

04:36
Holly Onsenk
It's changing every day it changes. So even if you take Social Value UK changing to an institute and the kind of thing around that, there's. Everything is changing so rapidly and if you're trying to learn how to be in a workplace, how to interact with people, what skills you need, if that's bid writing, whatever, and then you're trying to figure out the political landscape of an industry as well, that's changing constantly. It's a lot.

05:00
Sarah Stone
Yeah, that is quite a lot. Do you think there are a lot of people that want to work in social value? Do you think there are a lot of young people? Do you think young people have even heard of it?

05:07
Holly Onsenk
No, because even if I'm in the pub and people ask me what I do, that's the first thing, like, how do I even explain what I do? And then everyone you tell is like, that sounds so great. How do I do that sort of thing? Everyone loves it, I speak to about it, they just don't. That's the thing.

05:22
Sarah Stone
Do you know what, though? And I think that's so true because I'm the same. I hate it when people, they say, what do you. I hate that question, what do you do? Because I just think, oh God, yeah, I've thought uploads about this. I think one of the reasons is because social value, it means two different things. It's two words that are used in two different contexts. So, on the one hand it's a concept. So, it's about creating value and having a positive impact on people, right? And conceptually and making changes, doing things that will make changes to their well being that they will value. Right? We could do like a whole podcast just on that, couldn't we? And that's the concept. And when you're talking about the concept, that's where things like CSR come in, Social impact and ESG and all of that.

06:03
Sarah Stone
And then there's the application of social value in procurement, in public sector procurement. That's the second description of it. Yeah, but it's the same we use the same term to mean two very different things. And the use of social value and social value requirements in procurement is not unique to the uk. We're one of the, like, leaders globally on this. But lots of countries do it. But they don't call it social value. They call it social procurement or green procurement or sustainable procurement or whatever they want to call it. And so they don't necessarily have the same confusion that we get. Because when I say to people I do social value, and they look at me and I think, oh, here we go. And they.

06:37
Sarah Stone
And then I say, I work in procurement, which isn't quite true, but then they get really bored and go away normally. Or if you tell me you work in social value, the concept. So I'll often say, oh, well, I help companies have a positive impact for people and their stakeholders. And then they get very excited and think, oh, that's really exciting. And then I have to say, yeah, it's not as glamorous as it sounds. And, you know, like, 90% of the time, I'm not doing amazing things. Every so often you get that one win where you. Yeah, you know, it's all worth it. And you think, I am actually changing the world here. But, I mean, do you have that as well?

07:10
Holly Onsenk
Yeah, absolutely. And I think also as part of the network, what's really interesting is seeing where people end up. And also not even just the words used to in social value, but also like the different camps that are within social value. So, you kind of have the social return investment side versus the monetization, the very black and white side of social value, and having those different camps and seeing where different people lie and young professionals, depending on what organization they go to, Social value means a completely different thing to them versus someone else. So, for instance, when we did the Social Value Institute talk, we had Bethan, who is at Beam Research, and she kind of does all the social impacts side. So she does social return on investment.

07:52
Holly Onsenk
And then you have Rhiannon, who's now at Thrive, and she's that kind of measurement piece. So seeing how they interact in their interpretation of social value, their ethos meets in the middle. But the value part is very different to each of them, which is super interesting to me.

08:07
Sarah Stone
Yeah. And we could spend hours talking about that and the whole. Yeah. And I'm like, maybe not.

08:13
Holly Onsenk
Yeah, yeah, exactly.

08:14
Sarah Stone
I don't know. I mean, do you think it was really interesting you said about different camps? Do you think for somebody who's new, like, entering the industry, that is really confusing and how do they navigate it and do you think is there a right and a wrong? Because I'll often find that people will come to me with a particular opinion and then they'll learn more and they might change that opinion, but it doesn't mean they were wrong before.

08:37
Holly Onsenk
I don't think there's a right or wrong. I think there is a place for everything. Personally, I've looked at both sides of the coin and I think both of them are very useful at different points in terms of if you've got a massive project, what people are able to do is maybe not social return investment all the time and things like that. And money wise, I don't think there's any right or wrong accounts, but it's how can we actually work collaboratively to take the best pieces of all of it to have an outcome on a particular project? That's my opinion.

09:05
Sarah Stone
There's definitely a need though, isn't there, for more training and more.

09:10
Holly Onsenk
I think people don't know what they don't know as well a little bit in the sector at the moment, particularly with young professionals. They don't know the questions to ask to find out the information they need all the time. So actually, how is that going to be unlocked for anyone? And one thing that I've spoken about a lot recently is the people that have a more holistic view of social value, no matter what camp they are people that have those kind of senior role models and social value that have provided that mentorship and kind of taught those people off their own back in terms of organizations. And they're having these social value roles they're hiring people in. But there's actually no mentorship there for anyone joining the sector. And then because of that, those people kind of left to figure it out.

09:52
Sarah Stone
Companies are, they are, and they're hiring young people because they're cheap. And you see these roles advertise, they've got a social value problem. They think the solution is to hire somebody which is part of it, and then they expect that person to be able to change their organization. Well, actually no, they don't expect that person to change their organization. They expect that person to be able to answer their bids, right? Big responses, don't they? And they don't realize you need to change the way you operate if you want to improve your score. It's only a small percentage of it. It's about how you write the responses in it, how you deliver your service and then you end up with one person.

10:27
Sarah Stone
And I think loads of people who do social Value will relate to this, whether they're young or you've been in the industry a bit longer. You said it, didn't you? It's really lonely. You're just that one person trying to get a whole organization to change.

10:39
Holly Onsenk
Yeah. It's exhausting as a young professional, how if you haven't got any experience, if we're talking really, like really new young professionals, they've never worked in some of these companies before. They don't know the political landscape of companies. They don't know what levers to put on, who to talk to get things through. And they've got to learn that alongside the skills of social value. When not knowing what questions to ask people and who to ask and who has that knowledge as well. Yeah, it's a bit of a minefield. It's really interesting. I think on the flip side, people can create their own roles. So it's a really. In terms of professional development, that it's a really big area to grow it and I think it's really positive.

11:18
Sarah Stone
I've never thought about like that before. You've made me look at it a bit differently because actually that whole getting things done and problem solving and understanding how to make things happen and the politics of organizations is a really key skill if you want to do organizational change, which is what social value is about, isn't it? So you're right. How can we take. Yeah. Young people that are new into an industry, who's going to teach them that? That's such a good point.

11:44
Holly Onsenk
And transparently as well. So actually, who's got agendas and who's teaching these young professionals?

11:50
Sarah Stone
Yeah.

11:51
Holly Onsenk
So actually, are they coming from a measurement perspective or are they coming from a particular SRO I perspective? I know there's more in between that. If we're going from one extreme to the other.

12:00
Sarah Stone
Yeah.

12:00
Holly Onsenk
And. Yeah. And what are those people learning? And I think as young professionals grow, they start to ask more questions. That's why their network's so important, because we can ask those questions without agenda. And that's what we really want to keep in the group. There's no agenda to the group other than supporting people.

12:17
Sarah Stone
Yeah. I know loads of people that are in it and speak. Obviously I'm nfi, but. Yeah, I'm joking, but. And speak really highly of it. But I think the other thing, just last point on that is there's something about understanding how and why organizations or companies don't behave in the way in which we want them too. That's something you can only really learn through experience, isn't it? So, like, I remember being, you know, 20, 21 and starting out my career, and I remember thinking, well, I'm going to change the world. You know what I mean? And now I'm a little bit more jaded and a little bit more cynical.

12:51
Sarah Stone
But because I've got that experience of it, I can also come into an organization and when I see something isn't happening or something has a negative impact, I can see why that might be the case. And, you know, who might be the blocker. And I can also make a judgment about whether or not it's practical to change it, because there's lots of things that we would like to change, but for lots of reasons, they're never going to. So you might as well not bother, you know.

13:15
Holly Onsenk
Yeah.

13:15
Sarah Stone
A big part of it is trying to work out what other things you can change. If you're young and you're coming in and you're full of that enthusiasm, which we really, really need, by the way. Like, we so need it in our workplaces because, yeah, healthy workforces have got that really good mix, haven't they, of a bit of healthy realism and cynicism and experience versus the enthusiasm and passion of young people.

13:38
Holly Onsenk
Yeah.

13:39
Sarah Stone
And you mix those two together, that's really powerful.

13:42
Holly Onsenk
Yeah. And I think that's what I have within the organization that I work in was really lucky, and I'm really grateful for that because I think I have the enthusiasm, like, oh, but why can't we do this way? And then I'll get told, why not? From the people with more experience. Like Rob, for instance, has more experience. And he'll say, we can't do it because of this way. And I say, okay, let's flip it. And then I'm still encouraged to think of those new. I'm not just told, no, no. It's like, okay, for this reason, it won't work, but this part will. So can you figure out a different avenue to take that down? And I think fostering young professionals and giving them that room to grow and try new things as well.

14:17
Sarah Stone
Yeah. And also seeing the value that they can bring to the workplace. Right. As well. So I heard something ridiculous like there's now more generations in the workplace than there's ever been at any one time, you know, five different. Just because people are working later. So you've got this real mix, and then the gaps between the generations are so much bigger as well. But actually you've got younger professionals who have got all the skills that the older professionals don't have, you know, so they can use AI. Like everything I know about AI I learned from Louise.

14:49
Holly Onsenk
Yeah.

14:50
Sarah Stone
Who you know very well because she's one of your. In your network and she's taught us all loads and we. I wouldn't know that. And I'm a trustee of a charity and I used an AI note taker in a charity trustee meeting the other day and the other trustees who were like in their 70s were literally like blown away on a nap. Oh my God, this is amazing. You know, the chairman was in the middle like. Yes, you can thank Louise for that.

15:13
Holly Onsenk
Yeah.

15:14
Sarah Stone
So we do need that though, don't we? We need that knowledge sharing both ways.

15:18
Holly Onsenk
Yeah. And like I said, it's like that experience from the older generation as well within the workforce. And I think social value is such a niche area because you have very young professionals sitting in very senior meetings as well. And I don't think there's many other professions that have that.

15:34
Sarah Stone
Yeah.

15:34
Holly Onsenk
So I remember being 22, sat in directors meeting with a massive company and that was because Rob brought me along to it, which is brilliant. But there's no way I'd normally be in those rooms at that age.

15:44
Sarah Stone
Yeah. And actually quite powerful as well. You know, if you're sat in a big team solutioning an idea for a really big contract, that's quite an influential position to be in, isn't it?

15:54
Holly Onsenk
It's huge and it's very nerve wracking as well. And I think one side when you come in as a young professional, you've got all the energy and you don't think about anything. So, you've actually got all the confidence in the world and then as you start to realize what you don't know, it gets a little bit more scary and you kind of have to come out the other side. And I think that's where those kind of senior professionals really need to continue to push young professionals to bring them out that other side as well.

16:17
Sarah Stone
Yeah. So, what can people do if there's people listening and they're under 35, they can join you.

16:22
Holly Onsenk
Yep. Join young professionals in social value.

16:24
Sarah Stone
Yep, yep. You're all over the country, aren't you? You're like in Leeds and Bristol and you're all over the place.

16:29
Holly Onsenk
Absolutely, yeah. All down south. It was very London centric to begin with, as is every networking group, I think.

16:35
Sarah Stone
Yeah.

16:35
Holly Onsenk
We've got Leeds.

16:36
Sarah Stone
Yeah.

16:36
Holly Onsenk
We've got Manchester. We've even got people in Glasgow and Belfast, as well. And then we did a collaboration with Australia. So, if there's people working social impact in Australia, people over there as well.

16:47
Sarah Stone
I did see someone actually on LinkedIn who's going to Australia, and I was thinking I would tag you on that. Absolutely. What I mean. Yeah, yeah, very exciting. So young people can join you and then if you're over 35, what can you do to help support?

17:00
Holly Onsenk
The main thing is the mentoring space, so I know that a lot of young professionals have had so much value out of that, so offering to be a mentor is the biggest thing. Obviously, we're all volunteers, so if you can support the network in any way, that really helps us to do the job that we want to do, championing it, allowing your young professionals to join, go to networking as well.

17:21
Sarah Stone
You have to pay to join, by the way. Is there a fee or anything?

17:24
Holly Onsenk
No, it's absolutely free.

17:26
Sarah Stone
The mentoring scheme, is it open for applications? If we put a link in the notes, is that going to work?

17:30
Holly Onsenk
Yeah, so it goes around each time, so we kind of do different tranches of it because ultimately, when all the mentoring comes in, we then have to sort through everyone individually, by region and things, because we try and keep an area. Yeah. So it's a massive job that other people do, which is brilliant. But when we have it, I'll make sure that we post it out as well.

17:49
Sarah Stone
Yeah, cool. I'll show if there's anything I can do to help. You know the website is ypsv.co.uk yeah, we'll put a link underneath. And how can people reach you?

17:59
Holly Onsenk
LinkedIn is the best place, so if anyone wants to reach out or have a conversation, I'm always open to. It might take me a bit of time to get back to you, but I will always have a conversation.

18:07
Sarah Stone
It's a fantastic network and, yeah, if there's anything I can do, let me know.

18:11
Holly Onsenk
Yeah, absolutely.

18:12
Sarah Stone
Thank you. It's fantastic.

18:14
Holly Onsenk
Thank you very much.

18:16
Sarah Stone
I'm Sarah Stone and you've been listening to Let's Talk Social Value. You can find all our previous episodes on our website or. Or subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. And if you found this useful, then please do share the episode with your networks and consider leaving us a review. I'd love to know what you think of that episode, so please reach out to me and let me know. You can find me on LinkedIn or contact me on our website, www.santaler.co.uk. See you next time.